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  • Rapture discussion

    I wasn't sure where to post this, so I opted to do it here. I have started attending an A/G church that I attended from 1983-2012. A/G churches preach a pre-trib rapture. In class this morning, we were discussing end times stuff. One lady said, "I know this church believes in a pre-trib rapture, but with what I'm seeing/reading, I'm not sure I believe that anymore!" I was ecstatic to hear someone else speak up and say that. I spoke up and admitted that I am a pre-wrath believer myself. She and I are both very outspoken, so I have a feeling that the Lord may be using us to open the eyes of others who have bought into the pre-trib lie.
    Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

    We will either dwell in the secret place of the Most High or our flesh will make us want to hide things in secret. -- Nathan Leal

  • #2
    Recently, I got added to a FB group that is adamant about the pre-trib stance. They call other stances "WRONG" and post articles, studies, and pieces of historical evidence that the earliest believers were pre-trib (and that the whole Darby-started-pre-trib-lie thing is false). Anyway, the more I saw them say that other stances are wrong, the more I got to thinking that I don't think anyone should say this about any stance. Nobody knows for sure. I, like you, believe that scripture totally lends itself to a pre-wrath/post-trib timing, but here's the thing. If this were a biblical TRUTH that could actually be discerned and taught by the Holy Spirit as non-negotiable, all true believers would be privy to it. Instead, there are true, Holy Spirit-led believers in all camps. I think this means that God just isn't telling anyone anything for sure and that we have to walk by faith prepared to roll however it goes. Mark 13:35-47 says "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” Evening - pre-trib, Midnight - mid-trib, Crowing of the rooster - pre-wrath, morning - post-trib.

    I still think it's pre-wrath/post-trib and one Second Coming (not a third coming), but I don't call anyone wrong anymore.

    Greek Girl

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    • #3
      Jesus said:

      Matt 24: 29 - 33 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

      And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

      And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

      So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

      Side note: "rapture" does not appear in the bible.

      Mark 13: 22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

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      • #4
        I know. I'm with you. It's totally obvious to you and me. This is NOT about biblical evidence either way. I just don't think we can be so very dogmatic if God isn't confirming this to every Spirit-led believer. I think we can say it is what we believe and lay out the verses, but I don't think we can go around saying the others are "WRONG" lest pride come in..."I know the right way and you don't." Even if we are "right," what witness do we have going around calling others liars and heretics over a non-salvation issue?

        Greek Girl

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Greek Girl View Post
          I know. I'm with you. It's totally obvious to you and me. This is NOT about biblical evidence either way. I just don't think we can be so very dogmatic if God isn't confirming this to every Spirit-led believer. I think we can say it is what we believe and lay out the verses, but I don't think we can go around saying the others are "WRONG" lest pride come in..."I know the right way and you don't." Even if we are "right," what witness do we have going around calling others liars and heretics over a non-salvation issue?

          Greek Girl
          I have never called anyone a heretic for believing in the pre-trib lie. And when discussing it, I have been very careful about it because others can easily view me as a heretic or lunatic for believing in the pre-wrath view. After all, we've been taught that view for decades. I don't take pride in having the view I believe is correct. It breaks my heart that so many are deceived regarding the pre-trib lie, and because of that, I fear they will fall away when they don't get raptured before the tribulation begins. As I speak about it, I may become passionate about the topic because of the urgency in my spirit, but pride -- nope. I always tell people, "I hope to God that I am wrong on this, but I don't think I am. If I ever wanted to be wrong about any topic, THIS is the one I want to be wrong about."
          Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

          We will either dwell in the secret place of the Most High or our flesh will make us want to hide things in secret. -- Nathan Leal

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Greek Girl View Post
            I know. I'm with you. It's totally obvious to you and me. This is NOT about biblical evidence either way. I just don't think we can be so very dogmatic if God isn't confirming this to every Spirit-led believer. I think we can say it is what we believe and lay out the verses, but I don't think we can go around saying the others are "WRONG" lest pride come in..."I know the right way and you don't." Even if we are "right," what witness do we have going around calling others liars and heretics over a non-salvation issue?

            Greek Girl
            Think you know, already, sister that I am not given to unjustly labeling folks. But......... (always listen after the 'but' for there's the meat of the 'discussion').

            The pre trib rapture theory (nice word "theory') is just that..... and it lacks biblical documentation to support this man generated "theory." Jesus repetitively warned us what would happen in the last days and gave some pretty dire warnings about what would happen to His true disciples Before His return.
            Mark 13: 22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Renee M View Post

              I have never called anyone a heretic for believing in the pre-trib lie. And when discussing it, I have been very careful about it because others can easily view me as a heretic or lunatic for believing in the pre-wrath view. After all, we've been taught that view for decades. I don't take pride in having the view I believe is correct. It breaks my heart that so many are deceived regarding
              Originally posted by Renee M View Post
              the pre-trib lie, and because of that, I fear they will fall away when they don't get raptured before the tribulation begins.As I speak about it, I may become passionate about the topic because of the urgency in my spirit, but pride -- nope. I always tell people, "I hope to God that I am wrong on this, but I don't think I am. If I ever wanted to be wrong about any topic, THIS is the one I want to be wrong about."


              And therein is the real weight of this discussion sister Renee.

              It is base upon a LIE that will sway others to fall away from The Faith and commit heinous crimes including turning in true believers to the authorities and suicide when things get really scary and treacherous.

              I may be wrong, but the daily falling away among believers from The Faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone, has already begun with those who worship the words, the deeds and the sins (yes SINS) of the t man.
              Mark 13: 22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

              Comment


              • #8
                We were going to an AG Church when the kids were growing up in the late 80s till about 2002 and that was normal. It was normal for most Christian Churches including Catholic to believe in Pre-Trib. My wife and I go to a small country Baptist Church and most don't seem to really believe in any certain Trib any more. At least the ones that do believe in Pre-Trib that I've talked to admit that doesn't mean we get out of here without going through trials. Most of the Southern Baptist pastors I talk to seem to realize their flock is lacking spiritually. But they don't seem willing to preach to the extent of waking up their flock as that would disturb what type of sermons they're use to. Probably only a 1/4 of the adults attend Sunday school were we do have discussions that are more enlightening. I think the others are not thirsty. The congregation is about to select a new pastor. In the 5 years we've been attending they've gone through 4. And the biggest fault I see is controlling leaders of the Church. The last 2 Sunday sermons have been audio tapes from the Pastor that's coming next week live. The first was good, today's was bogus. I'll know more after next Saturday's meet and greet dinner after I talk to him. So please pray for us. I'm not sure why the Lord has me here as I could go 10 miles up the road to where my parents and lil sis go. Little sis's BIL is the pastor who I know well and the Church is much larger. But I feel they don't really need me, even though the congregation seems far more awake, which isn't that much.

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                • Greek Girl
                  Greek Girl commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Also praying for you. Being in God's will no matter where that may is the most important thing. Sometimes we don't always see it, but He is guiding us all the time.

                • Renee M
                  Renee M commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Praying for you, brother.

                • Serena
                  Serena commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I know the feeling. I saw two churches that kicked out their pastor because they want something else. But both were good and spoke the truth and had love. It broke my heart. I can't imagine how how you feel with it happening four times in five years. Praying for you as the Lord brings you to my mind.

              • #9
                The church I go to sings out of hymnals. The very first song tonight we sang tonight had Mark 13:35 as it's first line...I just looked at the ceiling and smiled at God's sense of humor.

                Greek Girl

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                • #10
                  Nathan and I do not believe in attacking those that believe the pre-trib theory....but we know without a doubt we are going pre-wrath. It is written.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I believe there is a distinction to be made between "trib" and wrath. I believe there will be a post trib prewrath rapture. Those who don't get their own personal "trib" right, will very likely be stuck here. I believe the rapture is just around the corner. From what I've been observing, all Christians seem to going through "stuff" right now - some having already mastered with flying colors. What I don't quite get, though, is where the remnant comes in.

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Donna View Post
                      Nathan and I do not believe in attacking those that believe the pre-trib theory....but we know without a doubt we are going pre-wrath. It is written.
                      I have not been online much in recent months, Donna, but saw a discussion about Watchmen on a blog I follow today, thought of you, Nathan and my dear friend HisDoulas (and others here... waving you know me if you know me. You prayed for my Poppa Grooch when he was in my care in Oklahoma and then when his spirit flew away.

                      So, hello old "Friends" and survivors (I still think of your survivor chicken after the fire a few years ago) and letting you know God continues to hold us in the palm of His hand here in Ozark country in Missouri.

                      I am actually looking into your "rabbit hole" for some crazy information regarding spirit beings called Glyphs or gylphs? I am seeing more references to those strange Eastern philosophies and remembered a big discussion in the rabbit hole long ago about the "nature" of the cloud monster believers.

                      I am delighted to pop in and discover you are still on the wall.

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                      • #13
                        Margarok........ nice to 'see' you here sister.
                        Mark 13: 22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

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                        • #14
                          Good to see you Margarok!
                          The Sweet Psalmist

                          https://watchmanscry.vbulletin.net/f...sweet-psalmist

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